American Indian History & Glendale Casino & Yavapai Oral History

American Indian History & Glendale Casino & Yavapai Oral History


>>>COMING UP NEXT ON “ARIZONA
HORIZON,” AN ASU HISTORY
PROFESSOR SAYS IT’S TIME TO
RETHINK THE WAY AMERICAN INDIAN
HISTORY IS CONSIDERED.
WE’LL LOOK AT THE MANY COURT
RULINGS REGARDING A PROPOSED
TRIBAL CASINO NEAR GLENDALE.
AND WE’LL HEAR FROM THE EDITOR
OF A BOOK THAT CHRONICLES THE
ORAL HISTORY OF THE YAVAPAI
NATION.
THOSE STORIES NEXT ON “ARIZONA
HORIZON.”
>>”ARIZONA HORIZON” IS MADE
POSSIBLE BY CONTRIBUTIONS FROM
THE FRIENDS OF 8, MEMBERS OF
YOUR ARIZONA PBS STATION.
THANK YOU.
>>>GOOD EVENING AND WELCOME TO
“ARIZONA HORIZON.”
I’M TED SIMONS.
HISTORY CAN BE VIEWED IN
DIFFERENT WAYS BY DIFFERENT
PEOPLE.
THAT CERTAINLY IS THE CASE WITH
AMERICAN INDIAN HISTORY.
IN A NEW BOOK, “CALL FOR
CHANGE: THE MEDICINE WAY OF
AMERICAN INDIAN HISTORY, ETHOS,
AND REALITY,” ASU PROFESSOR
DONALD FIXICO ARGUES THAT THE
CURRENT DISCIPLINE OF NATIVE
AMERICAN HISTORY IS INSENSITIVE
TO AND INCONSISTENT WITH HOW
AMERICAN INDIANS VIEW THEIR
PAST EXPERIENCES.
WE RECENTLY TALKED TO PROFESSOR
FIXICO ABOUT HIS NEW BOOK.
>>GOOD TO HAVE YOU HERE,
THANKS FOR JOINING US.
TIME TO RETHINK AMERICAN INDIAN
HISTORY.
WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?
>>THERE HAVE BEEN ACTUALLY
OVER 30,000 BOOKS WRITTEN ABOUT
AMERICAN INDIANS AND THE
OPERATIVE WORD IS ABOUT BECAUSE
IT’S FROM THE OUTSIDE ABOUT
INDIAN PEOPLE SO HERE’S A
CHANCE TO KIND OF GET IN THE
COMMUNITIES OF NATIVE PEOPLE
INSIDE OF THEIR MINDS AND
EXPLAIN HOW THEY’RE CULTURALLY
DIFFERENT, THEIR VALUES ARE
DIFFERENT AND THEY HAVE
DIFFERENT WORLD VIEWS.
THAT’S ALSO A NAVAJO LOGIC,
IT’S ALL DIFFERENT.
LET’S LOOK AT HISTORY THAT WAY.
>>SO YOU SAY THE CURRENT
DISCIPLINE IS INSENSITIVE TO
INDIAN VIEWS OF HISTORY.
TALK TO US ABOUT THAT.
>>IT’S TAKEN A WESTERNIZATION
APPROACH TO HISTORY ITSELF, A
PROFESSIONAL DISCIPLINE AND
SAYING HERE ARE THE FACTS.
AND HERE’S WHAT HAPPENED, AND
THEN THAT’S WHAT HAPPENED.
AND THAT REALLY KIND OF
DISREGARDS HOW THE NATIVE
PEOPLE THINK AND THEIR POINT OF
VIEW AND HOW THEY SEE HISTORY.
>>DO YOU THINK SOME OF THESE
HISTORIANS MISUNDERSTAND
AMERICAN INDIANS?
>>I CAN READ A HISTORY BOOK
ABOUT AMERICAN INDIANS AND IN
THE FIRST FEW PAGES, YOU CAN
DETERMINE THAT BUT YOU CAN ALSO
AT THE SAME TIME READ THE SAME
FEW PAGES OF A DIFFERENT BOOK
AND TELL THAT THAT SCHOLAR
SPENT A LOT OF TIME WITH THAT
NATIVE GROUP.
>>WHAT IS AN EXAMPLE OF A
MISUNDERSTANDING THAT YOU’VE
SEEN OUT THERE?
>>MISUNDERSTANDING?
MUCH OF THE HISTORY THAT IS
WRITTEN PROBABLY BEFORE THE
LATE 1960s, BECAUSE
ANTHROPOLOGISTS, HISTORIANS
HAVE WRITTEN BOOKS ABOUT NATIVE
PEOPLE BUT THE EYE OPENER WAS
STEVE BROWN’S BOOK.
IN THAT BOOK ABOUT THE AMERICAN
WEST, HE SAYS IN READING THE
INTRODUCTION, HE SAYS TO THE
READER, READ THE INTRODUCTION
FACING EAST AND WHEN YOU FACE
EAST, YOU CAN SEE THE MINORS
COMING TOWARDS YOU, THE
RAILROAD, THE SOLDIERS,
EVERYTHING LIKE THAT.
>>SO BASICALLY, IT’S INDIAN
VIEWS AND VALUES MIXED WITH
WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED?
>>YES.
>>WHEN YOU TEACH A CLASS, WHEN
YOU WROTE THE BOOK, WHO ARE YOU
WRITING THIS FOR?
WHO ARE YOU TEACHING TO?
>>I’M WRITING IT FOR EVERYONE
BECAUSE WE NEED TO KIND OF
LEARN TO THINK DIFFERENT WAYS
AND WE NEED TO IF WE TAKE ON
THE MOST DIFFICULT QUESTIONS
AND PROBLEMS, WELL HOW DO YOU
APPROACH THINGS DIFFERENTLY?
BECAUSE IF WE DON’T, THEN WE
WILL LIMIT OUR THINKING AND NOT
BE ABLE TO TACKLE THE DIFFERENT
QUESTIONS.
>>IN THE BOOK, I WANT TO GET
TO THE MEDICINE WAY IN A SECOND
BUT FIRST, NATURAL DEMOCRACY.
HOW DO YOU DEFINE NATURAL
DEMOCRACY IN THE CONTEXT OF
THIS BOOK AND IN THE CONTEXT OF
WHAT YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT?
>>NATURAL DEMOCRACY IS A TERM
I USED IN ABOUT 1982 WHEN I WAS
TALKING ABOUT THE IROQUOIS AND
HOW THEY DEALT WITH DEMOCRACY
AND DECISION MAKING.
AND I REMEMBER GIVING THAT
LECTURE WAY BACK THEN BUT
NATURAL DEMOCRACY IS MUTUAL
RESPECT FOR EVERYTHING AND NOT
JUST HUMAN BEINGS.
BUT RESPECT FOR RIVERS,
MOUNTAINS, FLORA, FAUNA, THAT
THEY’RE IN ALL OF THIS BECAUSE
ALL OF OUR RELATIONS — TO
ONLY LOOK AT IT IN TERMS OF
HUMAN RELATIONS IS ONLY LOOKING
AT A PIECE OF THE PIE.
WE NEED TO LOOK AT THE ENTIRE
SOCIETY OF LIFE.
>>SO LOOKING AT SAYING THAT
EVERYTHING SHOULD BE MUTUALLY
RESPECTED, YOU MOVE ONTO THE
MEDICINE WAY OF LOOKING AT
HISTORY.
TALK TO US ABOUT THAT.
>>MEDICINE WAY IS SOMETHING
THAT I GREW UP WITH AND I THINK
EVEN INDIGENOUS PEOPLE IN
DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE WORLD,
IF YOU’RE CLOSE TO YOUR WAYS OF
LIFE, EVERYTHING HAS A
POTENTIAL ENERGY, EVERYTHING
WATER, ROCK, THE WIND STORM,
ALL THAT HAS POTENTIAL ENERGY
BUT WE REFER TO THAT AS THE
MEDICINE WAY OR MEDICINE POWER.
THAT IS THE POWER OF ENERGY IN
HOW THAT’S RELEASED.
IF YOU DON’T RESPECT THE WATER,
THEN THE WATER WILL COME IN
TERMS OF A FLOOD OR A RAGING
RIVER OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
SO IN THE MEDICINE WAY, IT’S A
WAY OF PAYING THE RESPECT FOR
EVERYTHING THAT HAS POTENTIAL
POWER.
AND THAT’S WHAT WE DO, WE
RESPECT THAT.
>>SO HOW WOULD YOU THEN WORK
NATURAL DEMOCRACY IN THE
MEDICINE WAY?
>>WELL, IF EVERYTHING HAS
POWER, ONE THEN WE RESPECT
EVERYTHING THAT IS WITHIN THE
TOTALITY AND THE TOTALITY HAS
TO BE RESPECTED OR ELSE WE’LL
CAUSE OUR OWN DOOM BY GLOBAL
WARMING.
IF WE HAD RESPECTED PERHAPS THE
NORTHERN PARTS OF THIS PLANET
IN A MUCH BETTOR WAY AND
HANDLED OUR NATURAL RESOURCES
IN A MUCH BETTER WAY, WE WOULD
NOT BE IN THIS FORTHCOMING KIND
OF DOOM THAT’S GOING TO HAPPEN
WITH GLOBAL WARMING.
>>WE’VE GOT MUTUAL RESPECT FOR
EVERYTHING, WE HAVE THE
MEDICINE WAY IN THE WAY YOU
APPROACH EVERYTHING, HOW DOES
THAT WORK ITS WAY INTO THE
HISTORY OF AMERICAN INDIANS?
>>WELL, THE MEDICINE WAY HAS
ALWAYS BEEN THERE BECAUSE IT’S
THE MEDICINE WAY THAT THE
SENECA PEOPLE GREW UP,
SEMINOLES IN FLORIDA, MYSELF
GROWING UP IN OKLAHOMA.
IT’S INTRODUCING US TO THE
LARGER MAIN STREAM.
I FOUND THAT IN DOING THAT, I
HAD TO CONSTRUCT THEORETICALLY
A CULTURAL BRIDGE SO THE
CULTURAL BRIDGE ENABLES SOMEONE
IF THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT THE
MEDICINE WAY IS, THEY CAN CROSS
THIS BRIDGE AND TO GET INSIDE
OF THE TRIBAL COMMUNITIES AND
THE WAY OF NATIVE THINKING AND
CROSS THAT BRIDGE BACK.
>>SO WHEN YOU TALK AGAIN ABOUT
THE ETHOS AND THE REALITY OF
NATIVE AMERICANS, I WANT TO GET
IT BACK TO THIS CONTEXT OF
HISTORY.
HOW DOES THAT CHANGE THE WAY I
WOULD LOOK OR SOMEONE ELSE
WOULD LOOK AT THE HISTORY, ANY
ASPECT OF AMERICAN INDIAN
HISTORY, HOW WOULD THAT CHANGE
OR MIKE ME SEE THIS DIFFERENTLY
OR LITERALLY CHANGE THE REALITY
OF THAT HISTORY?
>>IT WOULD CHANGE A LOT
BECAUSE IF WE CAN LOOK BACK
INTO THE HISTORY, IT’S ALMOST
LIKE LOOKING AT A DIFFERENT
BOOK ALTOGETHER, LOOKING AT A
DIFFERENT WAY OF LIFE.
A GOOD WITH EXAMPLE IS MAYBE
WORLD WAR II OR MAYBE WORLD WAR
I.
BUT IF YOU GO BACK TO WORLD WAR
I OR II AND LOOK AT HOW THE
GERMAN PEOPLE THOUGHT AT THAT
TIME ABOUT THAT RATHER THAN THE
WESTERN APPROACH OF THE
AMERICAN HISTORIANS WRITING
ABOUT THAT, YOU DON’T GET THE
GERMAN PERSPECTIVE.
IN THIS SITUATION, YOU GET THE
AMERICAN INDIAN PERSPECTIVE AND
IT’S LIKE HOW DID THAT HAPPEN?
HOW DID I MISS THAT?
AND SO THIS NEW PERSPECTIVE,
THAT’S WHAT I’M TRYING TO
SUGGEST IN THIS BOOK.
>>AND YOU TALK ABOUT IROQUOIS
LOGIC AND OTHER TRIBAL LOGIC
AND HOW THEY CAN BE DIFFERENT.
HOW DO YOU INCORPORATE THAT
INTO A GENERAL UNDERSTANDING OF
AMERICAN INDIAN HISTORY?
BECAUSE I WOULD IMAGINE BETWEEN
TRIBES, THERE ARE GREAT
DIFFERENCES.
>>OH, INDEED, THERE’S 566
FEDERALLY RECOGNIZED TRIBES
TODAY.
NOW, THERE’S AT LEAST 566
POINTS OF VIEW AND IF YOU ADD
IN THE GENDER FACTOR, MEN AND
WOMEN, THAT’S TWICE THAT
AMOUNT.
THIS IS TO GET ON THE OTHER
SIDE OF THE EQUATION OF
INDIAN-WHITE RELATIONS AND ONCE
YOU’RE ON THE SIDE OF THE
EQUATION FACING EAST, LOOKING
AT THE FRONTIER, THEN IT OPENS
UP AND AS IT OPENS UP, THEN YOU
SEE THE DIFFERENT
RELATIONSHIPS.
TAKE ONE GROUP LIKE THE CREEKS
OR ANY TRIBE AND IT HAS
RELATIONSHIPS WITH THE WHITE
WORLD, THE CREEKS WITH THE
CHEROKEES BUT ALSO, THE CREEKS
WITH THE ANIMALS, THE PLANTS,
THE METAPHYSICAL.
>>YOU WRITE ABOUT THE BINARY
SYSTEM OF COLONIZER AND
COLONIZED.
HOW DO YOU FIND COMMON GROUND?
ARE THERE CIRCLES INVOLVED
THERE AS WELL?
>>THE COLONIZATION IS REALLY
ONLY LOOKING AT THE NATIVE
GROUP OR ONLY THE GROUPS —
THAT’S BINARY.
IF YOU TAKE THAT SAME
THEORETICAL MODEL OF TWO
RELATIONSHIPS AND YOU TURN THAT
AROUND, THEN YOU SEE THE —
THEN YOU SEE THE CREEKS AND ANY
TRIBE CAN BE IN THAT MIDDLE BUT
WE CAN’T FORGET THE CREEKS’
RELATIONSHIP WITH THE PLANT
WORLD AND THE ANIMAL WORLD AND
THE FRENCH AND SPANISH.
>>FOLKS WANT TO KNOW WHAT
HAPPENED AND THEY WANT TO KNOW
WHY IT HAPPENED.
FOR THE MOST PART IT’S A
CURIOSITY AS TO WHAT HAPPENED
BEFORE THEY MAY HAVE BEEN
AROUND.
HOW DOES THIS PARTICULAR
DISCIPLINE, THIS PARTICULAR
APPROACH, ALTER WHAT HAPPENED,
WHY IT HAPPENED?
>>WELL, I HOPE AND THIS IS MY
GOAL FOR THE BOOK IS TO REALLY
MAKE PEOPLE THINK REALLY HARD
ABOUT HISTORY AND IN PARTICULAR
AMERICAN INDIAN HISTORY AND
MAYBE INDIGENOUS HISTORY ALL
AROUND DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE
WORLD BECAUSE INDIGENOUS POINTS
OF VIEW IN AUSTRALIA OR THE
SIBERIA OF RUSSIA, THERE’S
DIFFERENT INTERPRETATIONS.
WITH THE WESTERN APPROACH, WE
NULLIFY, WE FORGET THE OTHER
KINDS OF HISTORY BY NOT WRITING
ABOUT HOW THOSE KIND OF PEOPLE
THINK.
WE USE A LARGE PAINTBRUSH AND
WE PAINT A WAY OF HISTORY.
>>YOU’LL BE TEACHING A NEW
CLASS ON THIS THIS FALL.
>>YES, USING THE BASIC
STRUCTURE OF IT BUT THE NEW
CLASS, AMERICAN INDIAN STUDIES
IS A SUBSTITUTE FOR ARIZONA
STATE UNIVERSITY’S 101.
NOW, WE’LL BE USING THREE
DIFFERENT BIOGRAPHIES BUT THESE
INDIVIDUALS, THE FIRST NAVAJO
FEMALE SURGEON, GRADUATE OF
STANFORD MEDICAL SCHOOL AND —
[ INDISCERNIBLE ]
SO HOW DID THESE INDIVIDUALS,
THINKING IN THE MEDICINE WAY,
HOW DID THEY SURVIVE GOING TO
MEDICAL SCHOOL WHEN THEY CAME
FROM A DIFFERENT SET OF IDEAS
AND BACKGROUNDS AND VALUES?
>>WELL, IT’S INTERESTING.
IT’S AN INTERESTING READ AND
IT’S CERTAINLY A DIFFERENT WAY
OF LOOKING AT THINGS.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING
US, WE APPRECIATE YOUR TIME.
>>IT’S A PLEASURE.
>>>WE WANT TO HEAR FROM YOU.
SUBMIT YOUR QUESTIONS, COMMENTS
AND CONCERNS VIA E-MAIL AT
[email protected]
>>>THE TOHONO O’ODHAM INDIAN
TRIBE’S PLANS TO BUILD A CASINO
ON LAND NEAR GLENDALE HAVE
SURVIVED SEVERAL COURT
CHALLENGES.
FOR THE LATEST, WE SPOKE WITH
HEIDI MCNEIL-STAUDENMAIER OF
THE LAW FIRM SNELL AND WILMER.
>>GOOD TO SEE YOU AGAIN.
>>THANK YOU.
>>WHAT EXACTLY DID THE JUDGE
RULE?
>>WELL, THE DECISION BACK IN
MAY PRETTY MUCH DECIDED MOST OF
THE CLAIMS THAT WERE OUT THERE,
BUT HE LEFT TWO CLAIMS ALONE,
WHICH HE FELT LIKE NEEDED
ADDITIONAL BRIEFING AND THOSE
SPECIFIC QUESTIONS WERE THE
RESTATEMENT OF CONTRACTS, WHICH
IS A STATUTORY LEGAL THING
APPLY WHEN A PARTY’S
UNDERSTANDING OF THE CONTRACT
IS NOT REASONABLE.
AND SECONDLY, WHICH
REPRESENTATIVES OF THE STATE
SHOULD WE LOOK TO TO DECIDE
WHAT THE STATE UNDERSTOOD WHEN
THE COMPACT WAS ENTERED INTO?
SHOULD THEY LOOK TO THE INTENT
OF THE GOVERNOR, THE VOTERS OR
SOMEBODY ELSE?
THOSE TWO ISSUES WERE SENT BACK
TO THE PARTIES TO BRIEF AND
THAT’S WHAT HE THEN LOOKED AT
AND REVIEWED IN THIS DECISION.
>>LET’S START WITH THE IDEA OF
WHAT WAS UNDERSTOOD BY THIS
GAMING CONTRACT.
WHAT DOES THE GAMING COMPACT
SAY REGARDING NEW CASINOS?
>>THAT’S WHAT THE JUDGE —
THAT’S BASICALLY THE CRUX OF
THE WHOLE ISSUE OF THE LAWSUIT
IS WHAT DOES THIS COMPACT,
WHICH IS 67 PAGES LONG, 26
SECTIONS, A VERY IN-DEPTH LEGAL
DOCUMENT AND THAT WAS PART OF
WHAT THE JUDGE WAS COMMENTING
ON WAS THIS COMPACT WAS
NEGOTIATED FOR A LONG TIME BY
SOME VERY SMART PEOPLE AND I
DON’T SEE ANYWHERE IN THIS
DOCUMENT THAT SAYS THAT THERE
WILL BE NO MORE NEW CASINOS IN
THE PHOENIX AREA.
AND THAT’S KIND OF WHAT IT
BOILS DOWN TO IS WHERE IN THE
COMPACT DOES IT SPECIFICALLY
SAY THERE WOULD BE NO MORE
CASINOS IN THE PHOENIX AREA FOR
THE TOHONO O’ODHAM TRIBE?
AND THE STATE AND THE OTHER
PLAINTIFFS ARGUED THAT WELL
THERE’S OTHER EVIDENCE OUT
THERE.
THERE’S UNDERSTANDINGS THAT THE
STATE HAD, THERE’S
UNDERSTANDINGS THAT THE TOHONO
O’ODHAM TRIBE HAD BUT THEY KNEW
WHEN THEY WERE ENTERING INTO
THIS COMPACT THAT THEY WERE
IMPLICITLY AGREEING THAT THERE
WOULD NOT BE ANY NEW CASINOS IN
THE PHOENIX AREA AND THEY WERE
A TRIBE IN TUCSON.
>>SO THE JUDGE IS BASICALLY
SAYING IMPLICIT IS ONE THING
BUT I DON’T SEE IT HERE IN THE
COMPACT?
>>HE LOOKED AT THOSE TWO
DISCRETE ISSUES AND THE MOST
IMPORTANT THING THAT HE
DETERMINED RIGHT FROM THE START
WAS HE SAID, OKAY UNDERSTAND
THERE MAY BE EVIDENCE OUT THERE
ABOUT WHAT THE TRIBE
UNDERSTOOD, WHAT THE STATE MAY
HAVE UNDERSTOOD BUT HE LOOKED
AT THE FOUR CORNERS OF THE
CONTRACT, ALSO LOOKED AT
ARIZONA LAW WHICH HAS A VERY
LIBERAL INTERPRETATION OF HOW
YOU INTERPRET LETTING IN OTHER
EVIDENCE THAT’S NOT IN THE FOUR
CORNERS OF THE CONTRACT AND
EVEN NOTWITHSTANDING THAT
LIBERAL INTERPRETATION, HE SAID
THIS IS AN INTEGRATED CONTRACT.
ALL OF THE IMPORTANT TERMS ARE
CONTAINED IN THE FOUR CORNERS
OF THIS CONTRACT.
THEREFORE, IT REALLY DOESN’T
MATTER WHAT OTHER
UNDERSTANDINGS MAY HAVE BEEN
SEPARATE AND APART FROM THIS
CONTRACT.
>>WITH THE IDEA BEING THAT
BECAUSE THE CONTRACT IS SO FIRM
AND IT’S ALL RIGHT THERE, IF
YOU DIDN’T UNDERSTAND, WHERE
WERE YOU?
>>WHY DIDN’T YOU PUT IT IN
THERE?
EXACTLY.
AND, YOU KNOW, THERE WAS A LOT
OF DISCUSSION IN THE BRIEFING
ABOUT WELL, YOU KNOW, THE
TOHONO O’ODHAM TRULY KNEW THAT
THEY WANTED TO HAVE THE CASINO
BUT YET THEY DIDN’T BRING THAT
UP DURING THE DISCUSSIONS AND
SO, YOU KNOW, THE JUDGE REALLY
DID A VERY THOROUGH
EXAMINATION.
HE LOOKED AT ALL THIS EXTRINSIC
EVIDENCE AND AT THE END OF THE
DAY HE SAID THIS CONTRACT
STANDS ON ITS OWN AND IT’S NOT
A REASONABLE INTERPRETATION
OTHERWISE.
>>NOW, THE SECOND PART IS WHO
WAS SUPPOSED TO DO THE
UNDERSTANDING?
>>WELL, THAT’S KIND OF A
SECONDARY ISSUE, EVEN THOUGH
THAT WAS ONE OF THE ISSUES
BRIEFED BECAUSE IN THE JUDGE’S
FINAL ANALYSIS, IT DIDN’T
REALLY MATTER WHOSE
UNDERSTANDING IT WAS BECAUSE HE
SAID THAT A SEPARATE ORAL
AGREEMENT THAT’S SEPARATE AND
APART FROM THIS INTEGRATED
AGREEMENT REALLY IS NOT
REASONABLE TO INCLUDE IN MY
ANALYSIS.
>>SO IF THE GOVERNOR THOUGHT
THIS, THE VOTERS MAY HAVE
THOUGHT THIS, THE ATTORNEY
GENERAL SAID EVERYONE’S
THINKING ALL OVER THE PLACE BUT
THE CONTRACT SAYS X, Y AND Z,
IT DOESN’T MATTER?
>>THAT’S PRETTY MUCH HOW THE
JUDGE CAME DOWN ON WITH THE
RULING.
>>WHAT HAPPENS FROM HERE ON
THIS?
>>WELL, I HAVEN’T HEARD
SPECIFICALLY BUT I WOULD ASSUME
THAT THE PLAINTIFFS, THE STATE
AND THE OTHER TRIBES, ARE
CONTEMPLATING APPEAL.
IF THEY DO APPEAL, THE NEXT
STEPS FOR APPEALING WOULD BE TO
THE NINTH CIRCUIT COURT OF
APPEALS IN SAN FRANCISCO.
SO THEY FILED A NOTICE OF
APPEAL AND GOING THROUGH THAT
PROCESS AND IT’S POSSIBLE IF
THEY GO THROUGH THAT PROCESS
AND DETERMINING HOW THAT COMES
OUT, IT COULD BE APPEALED TO
THE SUPREME COURT.
>>THE BASIS OF THEIR APPEAL
WOULD BE SIMILAR TO THEIR
ARGUMENT IN THIS PARTICULAR
CASE AND THAT IS WE UNDERSTOOD
X BUT WE DIDN’T GET IT IN THE
CONTRACT?
>>WELL, IT WOULD BE THEIR
ENTIRE — THIS CASE NOW IS
DONE.
THEY HAD A LOT OF CLAIMS IN THE
CASE, THE JUDGE ENTERED SUMMARY
JUDGMENTS ON EVERY SINGLE
CLAIM.
THEY’RE GOING TO LOOK BACK AT
THE CLAIMS AND DETERMINE WHICH
ARE THE BEST CLAIMS AND PUT
THEIR BEST FACE FORWARD.
THEY HAVE TO GET THROUGH THIS
JUDGE’S ANALYSIS WHICH IS
PRETTY SOLID.
>>NOW, AS FAR AS I KNOW
THERE’S AN EFFORT TO ANNEX
LAND, THAT IS IN COURT AS WELL,
WHERE DOES THAT STAND?
>>WELL, THAT LAWSUIT WAS SENT
BACK TO THE SECRETARY OF THE
INTERIOR WHO HAD MADE A
DECISION, EITHER EARLIER THIS
YEAR OR LAST YEAR ABOUT TAKING
LAND IN THE TRUST SAYING IT DID
QUALIFY UNDER THE FEDERAL
STATUTE BUT THEY WANT THE JUDGE
IN THAT CASE WANTS THE
SECRETARY TO TAKE ANOTHER LOOK
AT IT AND DETERMINE WHETHER OR
NOT BECAUSE THIS LAND IS
SURROUNDED BY THE CITY OF
GLENDALE ON THREE SIDES,
WHETHER THAT SOMEHOW TAKES IT
OUT OF THE CATEGORY FOR
QUALIFYING.
YOU KNOW.
SO THE SECRETARY IS GOING TO
HAVE TO RE-EXAMINE THAT ISSUE
AND MAKE ANOTHER DECISION IN
TERMS OF WHETHER THE LAND
SHOULD BE TAKEN IN A TRUST OR
MAYBE THE SECRETARY MAY MAKE A
TOTALLY DIFFERENT DECISION.
>>SO RIGHT NOW, THE CITY IS
ENJOINED THE BLOCK FROM
ANNEXING THE LAND AND THE TRIBE
IS BLOCKED FROM TAKING THE
TRUST AND THE INTERIOR
DEPARTMENT, IT SOUNDS LIKE —
DON’T WE HAVE COUNTY ISLANDS
ALL OVER THE PLACE?
>>I WOULD SUSPECT WE DO.
>>SO FROM A DISTANCE, IT
SOUNDS SOMEWHAT SIMPLE.
WE’LL SEE HOW THE INTERIOR
DEPARTMENT DOES ON THAT ONE.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR HELP
EXPLAINING ALL OF THIS.
>>THANK YOU THANK YOU.
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>>>IN THE 1970s, THE YAVAPAI
COMMUNITY OF THE FORT MCDOWELL
RESERVATION EAST OF THE PHOENIX
AREA FOUGHT OFF A PROPOSED
FEDERAL DAM, WHICH LED TRIBAL
ELDERS TO HAVE THEIR HISTORIES
RECORDED AS THEY THEMSELVES
KNEW IT, PASSED DOWN ORALLY
FROM GENERATION TO GENERATION.
THE EFFORT RESULTED IN, “ORAL
HISTORY OF THE YAVAPAI,” A BOOK
THAT CHRONICLES THE HISTORY OF
THE YAVAPAI NATION.
WE SPOKE WITH CAROLINA BUTLER,
EDITOR OF THE PROJECT ABOUT THE
BOOK AND WHAT IT TOOK TO PUT IT
TOGETHER.
>>GOOD TO HAVE YOU HERE, THANK
YOU.
>>THANK YOU.
>>WHY DID YOU UNDERTAKE THIS
PARTICULAR PROJECT?
>>BECAUSE IT WAS NOT MINE TO
DO BUT IT JUST WORKED OUT THAT
WAY.
THE OLDEST MAN OF THE TRIBE,
MIKE HARRISON, HE ASKED ME IN
1973, I WANT YOU TO WRITE THE
HISTORY OF OUR TRIBE AND I SAID
WELL I’M BUSY RIGHT NOW.
AND I SAID I’LL GET YOU
SOMEONE.
AND SO I SENT OUT A LETTER TO A
PUBLISHER IN TUCSON THAT I KNEW
AND THE LETTER FOUND ITSELF
INTO THE HANDS OF DR. CARA, AN
ANTHROPOLOGY PROFESSOR.
SHE CALLED ME UP AND SHE SAID
I’M INTERESTED IN DOING THIS
PROJECT AND I TOOK HER OUT TO
FORT McDOWELL AND INTRODUCED
HER TO MIKE HARRISON AND HE HAD
INVITED HIS COUSIN, SO THE
THREE OF THEM SAT DOWN AND THEY
STARTED RECORDING AND THEY
RECORDED FOR ABOUT TWO TO THREE
YEARS.
TENDED UP IN 200 AUDIO
RECORDINGS OF THEIR INTERVIEWS.
AND MIKE AND JOHN DIED OF OLD
AGE IN 1983 AND THE DOCTOR
UNFORTUNATELY GOT CANCER AND
SHE DIED IN 1984.
SHE KNEW THAT SHE WAS NOT GOING
TO GET WELL SO SHE WROTE HER
WILL AND LEFT ME ALL HER
RESEARCH MATERIAL.
>>WOW.
>>SO THE BIG PROJECT LANDED IN
MY LAP SO I JUST PUT IT ASIDE
FOR MANY, MANY YEARS, DID SOME
WORK ON IT, CATEGORIZING HER
COLOR SLIDES, ETC.
, ANYWAY.
ONE DAY I SAID I’M NOT GETTING
ANY YOUNGER, I BETTER GET IT
DONE.
>>AND YOU GOT THE THING DONE.
>>I’M VERY PLEASED.
>>I’M SURE YOU ARE.
>>ORAL HISTORY OF THE YAVAPAI
IS A VERY SPECIAL AND DIFFERENT
BOOKS WHICH ALL ARIZONANS
SHOULD KNOW ABOUT BECAUSE IT’S
HISTORY FROM THE INDIAN’S POINT
OF VIEW AND TOLD IN THEIR OWN
WORDS.
YOU DON’T COME ACROSS THAT IN
ANY BOOK.
NOBODY’S LIBRARY SHELF HAS A
BOOK LIKE THIS ONE.
>>YOU TALKED TO THE TWO
ELDERS, THEY WERE RESPONSIBLE
FOR THE EARLIER INTERVIEWS.
WERE OTHER PEOPLE INVOLVED AT
LATER DATES OR WAS THIS MOSTLY
THEIR REMEMBRANCES?
>>IT WAS THEIR REMEMBRANCES
BUT YOU WILL READ IN THE BOOK
THAT THE DOCTOR WRITES THAT
OTHER PEOPLE FROM THE
RESERVATION CAME AROUND AND
SAYS WELL THAT’S NOT EXACTLY
HOW IT HAPPENED.
BUT ANYWAY, THIS IS TO BE
EXPECTED SO SHE SAID AFTER
HEARING FROM OTHER PEOPLE,
THERE WAS NO QUESTION THAT THE
ONES THAT HAD THE MOST
KNOWLEDGE ABOUT THE OLD DAYS
WERE MIKE AND JOHN.
>>AND YOU MENTIONED SOME OTHER
PEOPLE INVOLVED AND MAYBE THEY
HAD DIFFERENT STORIES.
WHEN YOU PUT AN ORAL HISTORY
TOGETHER, HOW DO YOU MAKE SURE
THAT THE FACTS ARE THE FACTS?
HOW DO YOU COOPERATE SOME OF
THIS INFORMATION?
DO YOU TALK TO OTHER PEOPLE?
HOW DO YOU MAKE SURE THE WORK
YOU WERE GETTING WAS THE REAL
THING?
>>I REMEMBERED THAT — ALL OF
US BECAME CLOSE FRIENDS AND I
HEARD HER BECAUSE SHE
RESEARCHED THE ARMY RECORDS,
THE WHITE PEOPLE’S RECORDS, AND
SHE WOULD SAY IT’S AMAZING HOW
THE TWO OLD FELLAS ARE SAYING
THIS DOVE TAILS INTO THE
RECORDS THAT THE ARMY HAS.
IT’S AMAZING.
>>YOUR BOOK INCLUDES SOME
AMAZING PHOTOGRAPHY.
TALK TO US ABOUT WHERE YOU GOT
THOSE PHOTOS AND YAVAPAI
FEDERAL LAND HERE IS ABSOLUTELY
GORGEOUS.
BUT THE PHOTOGRAPHS, WHAT DID
YOU FIND THIS?
>>THE PHOTOGRAPHERS, FIRST OF
ALL, THE COVER IS OF FOUR PEAKS
AND IT’S ON EVERYBODY’S ARIZONA
LICENSE PLATE.
>>WE CAN ALMOST ALL SEE IT,
TOO.
>>BUT ANYWAY, THIS PHOTO WAS
TAKEN BY MY SON, WHO’S A
PROFESSIONAL PHOTOGRAPHER.
HE GETS HIS PHOTOGRAPHS ON
ARIZONA HIGHWAYS.
BUT HE HAS TAKEN SOME OF THOSE
PHOTOS AND WHEN I FINISHED THE
TEXT OF THE BOOK, HE SAID MOM,
YOU CAN HAVE ANY PHOTO THAT YOU
WANT FROM MY INVENTORY.
AND SO I JUST WENT THROUGH AND
I ASKED HIM DO YOU HAVE A PHOTO
OF THIS, THIS, I SAID I DON’T
WANT ANY BUILDINGS, I DON’T
WANT ANY PEOPLE, I WANT
LANDSCAPES.
>>AND YOU GOT SOME LANDSCAPES.
IT’S AN AMAZING ARRAY OF
PHOTOGRAPHS.
WHEN THE PROJECT WAS FINALLY
DONE, YOU’VE GOT THE BOOK, YOU
LEAF THROUGH THE BOOK, YOU LOOK
THROUGH IT, WAS IT WHAT YOU
EXPECTED?
>>I HAVE TO TELL YOU THAT IT
BRINGS ME TO TEARS BECAUSE THE
STORY OF THE YAVAPAI IS SO
PAINFUL.
AND NO ONE KNOWS ABOUT IT.
AND THOSE PEOPLE WALK AMONG US
TODAY AND I SAY THAT FOR 150
YEARS, THE YAVAPAI PEOPLE HAVE
BEEN WALKING AMONG US, HOLDING
THIS PAINFUL PAST IN THEIR
HEARTS AND SOULS BECAUSE THEIR
HISTORY HAS NOT BEEN OUT UNTIL
NOW.
AND SO IMAGINE, THE BLACK
AMERICANS WALKING AMONG US
TODAY, AND NO HISTORY HAS EVER
BEEN RECORDED OF THEIR PAINFUL
PAST.
IT’S THE SAME WAY FOR THE
YAVAPAI.
>>SO WHAT REACTION HAVE YOU
HAD FROM THE YAVAPAI PEOPLE?
AND WHAT REACTION HAVE YOU HAD
FROM OTHER HISTORIANS?
>>THE HISTORIANS I’LL TELL
YOU, EVEN TODAY WHEN I WAS
TELLING EVERYBODY, I ALERTED
HALF OF ARIZONA.
>>GOOD NEWS.
>>YES, THE BOOK WAS GOING TO
BE ON THIS PROGRAM.
BUT PROFESSIONAL ARCHEOLOGISTS,
PROFESSORS THAT I KNOW THAT
KNOW ABOUT THE BOOK, THEY SAID
IT’S SO GREAT.
ONE PROFESSOR E-MAILED TODAY.
HE SAYS I’VE READ THE BOOK AND
I HAD TO SKIP SOME OF THE
PAINFUL PARTS.
IT’S JUST TOO MUCH.
AND I SAY THESE PEOPLE HAVE
BEEN WALKING AROUND WITH IT IN
THEIR HEARTS FOR 150 YEARS.
>>WELL, WE’VE RUN OUT OF TIME.
CONGRATULATIONS ON THE PROJECT.
OBVIOUSLY, A LONG TIME IN
COMING BUT YOU GOT IT OUT
THERE, THE BOOK IS OUT THERE,
CONTINUED SUCCESS.
THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.
>>AND THE YAVAPAIS HAVE ALL
LOVED IT AND I THINK EVERY
YAVAPAI IS WATCHING TODAY.
>>AND THAT’S GOOD NEWS, TOO.
GOOD TO HAVE YOU HERE.
>>>AND THAT IS IT FOR NOW.
I’M TED SIMONS, THANK YOU SO
MUCH FOR JOINING US.
YOU HAVE A GREAT EVENING.

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“ARIZONA HORIZON,” PLEASE
CONTACT US AT ONE OF THE
ADDRESSES ON YOUR SCREEN.
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FUTURE EDITION OF “ARIZONA
HORIZON.”
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