The Truth about Hydrogen

The Truth about Hydrogen


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As the world grapples to eliminate fossil
fuels from our energy diet, electric cars
have seen an incredible boom over the past
few years.
Last year, over one million electric cars
were sold around the world.
The number of Nissan Leafs, Teslas, and other
electric vehicles in circulation worldwide
is now more than three million.
And while there are many brands of electric
car to choose from, there are only two choices
when it comes to powering electric vehicles:
fuel cells or batteries.
Both produce electricity to drive electric
motors, eliminating the pollution and inefficiencies
of the fossil fuel powered internal combustion
engine.
Both hydrogen and electricity for batteries
can be produced from low­ or zero ­carbon
sources, including renewable energy like solar
and wind, and therefore both are being pursued
by car manufacturers and researchers as the
possible future of electric vehicles.
However, a great debate is being waged by
supporters of each technology.
Elon Musk has called hydrogen fuel cell technology
“incredibly dumb,” claiming they’re
more of a marketing ploy for automakers than
a long-term solution.
In contrast, Japan has announced its intention
to become the world’s first hydrogen society,
with the Japanese government and the auto
industry working together to introduce 160
hydrogen stations and 40,000 fuel-cell vehicles
by March 2021.
So which is actually better?
At first glance, hydrogen seems like an extremely
clever way to power a car.
Compressed hydrogen has a specific energy
(aka energy per unit mass) of neary 40,000
watt hours per kilogram.
Lithium ion batteries at best have a specific
energy of just 278 wh/kg, but most fall around
167 wh / kg.
That’s 236 times as much energy per kg for
hydrogen.
And because of its energy density and lightweight
nature, compressed hydrogen and fuel cells
can power cars for extended ranges without
adding much weight, which as we saw in our
last video is a gigantic road block for incorporating
the technology into the aviation industry.
The designers of electric vehicles are caught
in a catch 22 with energy density and range.
Each extra kilogram of battery weight to increase
range requires extra structural weight, heavier
brakes, a higher torque motor, and in turn
more batteries to carry around this extra
mass, This weight compounding limits how far
a battery powered vehicle can travel, until
new technology can help reduce the weight
of the batteries.
For hydrogen fuel cell vehicles, this weight
compounding is not an issue.
Additionally, a hydrogen fuel cell vehicle
can be refueled in under 5 minutes, where
a battery powered electric vehicle, like the
Tesla model S, takes over 3 hours to fully
recharge.
When looking at the range and refuel times
hydrogen can offer, you can see why some car
manufacturers are investing in this technology.
On the face of it.
Hydrogen is a clear winner, but it falls behind
when we start considering the end-to-end production
process.
While both batteries and hydrogen fuel cells
are both forms of electricity storage, the
cost differ drastically.
Fully charging a Tesla Model 3 with a 75 kiloWatt
hour battery, costs between 10-12 dollars
depending where you live.
With a rated range of 500 kilometers, that’s
between 2 and 2.4 cent per kilometer.
A great price.
In a previous video, I visited a petrol station
that introduced a hydrogen pump, fed by its
own on-site production facility.
which used off-peak electricity to produce
hydrogen.
The hydrogen from this station cost $85 dollars
to fill the 5 kg tank of the Toyota Mirais
on site, which had a range of 480 kms.
That’s 17.7 cent per kilometer, 8 times
the price.
And here lies the problem, Hydrogen simply
requires more energy to produce.
To understand the economic viability of hydrogen
let’s dig deeper into the production process.
Before any hydrogen vehicle can hit the road,
you first need to produce the hydrogen, but
hydrogen is not a readily available energy
source.
Even though hydrogen is the most abundant
element in the universe, it is usually stored
in water, hydrocarbons, such as methane, and
other organic matter.
One of the challenges of using hydrogen as
an energy storage mechanism comes from being
able to efficiently extract it from these
compounds.
In the US, the majority of hydrogen is produced
through a process called steam reforming.
Steam reforming is the process of combining
high-temperature steam with natural gas to
extract hydrogen.
While steam reforming is the most common method
of industrial hydrogen production, it requires
a good deal of heat and is wildly inefficient.
Hydrogen produced by steam reforming actually
has less energy than the natural gas that
the steam reforming began with.
And while hydrogen fuel cells themselves don’t
produce pollution, this process does.
So if we want to assume a future scenario
with as little carbon emission as possible,
this method won’t cut it.
Another method to produce hydrogen is electrolysis
– separating the hydrogen out of water using
an electric current.
While the electricity needed for this process
can be provided from renewable sources, it
requires even more energy input than steam
reforming.
You end up losing 30% of the energy from the
original energy put in from the renewables
when you carry out electrolysis.
So we are sitting at 70% energy efficiency
from hydrogen fuel cells if traditional electrolysis
is used, before the car even starts its engine.
A slightly more efficient method of producing
hydrogen is polymer exchange membrane electrolysis.
Using this method, energy efficiencies can
reach up to 80%, with the added benefit of
being produced on site, which we will get
to in a moment.
But this is still a 20% loss of energy from
the original electricity from the renewables.
Some experts say the efficiency of PEM electrolysis
is expected to reach 82-86% before 2030, which
is a great improvement, but still well short
of batteries charging efficiency at 99%.
[1] A 19% difference in production costs doesn’t
explain the difference in costs yet, so where
else are we losing energy.
The next hurdle in getting hydrogen fuel cell
vehicles on the road is the transport and
storage of the pure hydrogen.
If we assume the hydrogen is produced on site,
like it was for this petrol station, then
we eliminate one energy sink, but the cost
of storage is just as problematic.
Hydrogen is extremely low density as a gas
and liquid, and so in order to achieve adequate
energy density, we have to increase its actual
density.
We can do this in two ways.
We can compress the hydrogen to 790 times
atmospheric pressure, but that takes energy,
about 13% of the total energy content of the
hydrogen itself.
Alternatively we can turn hydrogen into liquid,
cryogenically.
The advantage of hydrogen liquefaction is
that a cryogenic hydrogen tank is much lighter
than a tank that can hold pressurized hydrogen.
But again, hydrogen’s physical properties
means hydrogen is harder to liquefy than any
other gas except helium.
Hydrogen is liquified by reducing its temperature
to -253°C, with an efficiency loss of 40%,
once you factor in the added weight of the
refrigerators and the refrigeration itself.
So pressurisation is a better option at a
13% energy loss.
Once the hydrogen is produced and compressed
to a liquid or gas, a viable hydrogen infrastructure
requires that hydrogen be able to be delivered
from where it’s produced to the point of end-use,
such as a vehicle refueling station.
Where the hydrogen is produced can have a
big impact on the cost and best method of
delivery.
For example, a large, centrally located hydrogen
production facility can produce hydrogen at
a lower cost because it is producing more,
but it costs more to deliver the hydrogen
because the point of use is farther away.
In comparison, distributed production facilities
produce hydrogen on site so delivery costs
are relatively low, but the cost to produce
the hydrogen is likely to be higher because
production volumes are less.
While there are some small-scale, on-site
hydrogen production facilities being installed
at refuelling pumps, such as the station mentioned
in the last hydrogen video.
until this infrastructure is widespread, we
have to assume that the majority of hydrogen
is being transported by truck or pipeline,
where we know that energy losses can range
from 10% up to 40%.
In comparison, assuming that the electricity
that we use for charging the batteries comes
completely from renewable resources (like
solar or wind), we just have to consider the
transmission losses in the grid.
Using the United States grid as a reference
for typical grid losses, the average loss
is only 5%.
So in the best case scenario for hydrogen,
using the most efficient means of production
and transport, we lose 20% of energy during
PEM electrolysis, and around 13% for compression
and storage, amounting to a 33% loss.
In other systems, this could be as much as
56%.
For battery power, up to this point, we have
lost just 6% to the grid and recharging.
Bringing our best case efficiency difference
to 27% and our worst case to 50%.
The next stage of powering electric vehicles
is what is called the tank to wheel conversion
efficiency.
For hydrogen fuel cell vehicles, once the
hydrogen is in the tank, it must be re-converted
into electric power.
This is done via a fuel cell, which essentially
works like a PEM electrolyser, but in reverse.
In a PEM fuel cell, hydrogen gas flows through
channels to the anode, where a catalyst causes
the hydrogen molecules to separate into protons
and electrons.
Once again the membrane only allows protons
to pass through it, while electrons flow through
an external circuit to the cathode.This flow
of electrons is the electricity that is used
to power the vehicles electric motors.
If the fuel cell is powered with pure hydrogen,
it has the potential to be up to around 60%
efficient, with most of the wasted energy
lost to heat.
Like hydrogen fuel cells, batteries also come
with inefficiencies and energy losses.
The grid provides AC current while the batteries
store the charge in DC.
So to convert AC to DC, we need a charger.
Using the Tesla Model S as an example, its
peak charger efficiency is around 92%.
The Tesla model S runs on AC motors; therefore,
to convert the DC current supplied by the
batteries into AC current, an inverter has
to be used with an efficiency of roughly 90%.
Additionally, lithium ion batteries can lose
energy due to leakage.
A good estimate for the charging efficiency
of a lithium ion battery is 90%.
All of these factors combined lead to a total
efficiency of around 75%.
However, hydrogen fuel cell vehicles also
have some of these same inefficiencies.
Any kind of electrolysis requires DC current,
and therefore, a rectifier will be required
to convert the AC current from the grid to
DC.
The conversion efficiency here is 92%.
We also need to convert the DC current produced
by the fuel cell to AC to power the motor
through an inverter with an efficiency of
90%.
Finally, the efficiency of the motor must
be considered for both fuel cell and battery
powered vehicles.
Currently, this is around 90-95% for both
of them, which is amazing when you consider
that internal combustion engines running on
petrol have an efficiency of only around 20-30%.
If we add up all these inefficiencies and
compare current generation batteries, to the
best and worst case scenario of current gen
hydrogen.
We can see how they measure up.
Even with the BEST case scenario.
Not taking into account any transport due
to onsite production, and assuming very high
electrolysis efficiency of 80%, and assuming
a HIGH fuel cell efficiency of 80%, hydrogen
still comes out at less than half the efficiency.
The worst case scenario is even worse off.
So while you may be able to go further on
one fill-up of hydrogen in your fuel cell
vehicle over a battery powered electric vehicle,
the cost that is needed to deliver that one
fill up would be astronomically higher compared
to charging batteries due to these energy
losses and efficiencies.
Based on our worst case scenario, we would
expect the cost per kilometre to be about
3.5 times greater for hydrogen, but as we
saw earlier it’s actual 8 times the price.
So additional costs of production unrelated
to efficiencies are obviously at play.
The cost of construction of the facility is
one and the profit the station will take from
sale is another.
For now, these inefficiencies and costs are
driving the market, where most investment
and research is going into battery powered
electric vehicles.
So which wins?
Both are equally more green than internal
combustion engines, assuming equal renewable
resources are used to power them.
Fuel cells allow for fast fill up times and
long ranges; a big advantage.
But battery powered vehicles might catch up
in range by the time there are enough hydrogen
stations to ever make fuel cell vehicles viable.
While fuel cells are efficient relative to
combustion engines, they are not as efficient
as batteries.
They may make more sense for operation disconnected
from the grid or as we saw in our last video
using hydrogen for planes actually could make
a lot of sense, but once again that’s a
topic for another video.
For now, battery powered electric vehicles
seem to be the sensible choice going forward
in the quest for pollution free consumer transport.
As battery-powered cars become more common,
we’re also starting to see self-driving
cars become the norm.
If the job of driver is slowly automated away
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100 thoughts on “The Truth about Hydrogen”

  1. You missed the boat. Hydrogen can be easily made, and low cost, from ammonia. Ammonia can be run in a piston engine vehicle now with minor changes or use it in a fuel cell to create electricity. Hydrogen is H20 and liquid ammonia is H3N0H. N stands for nitrogen and 78% of our air we breath is nitrogen. When burned in the piston engine, the outcome is moisture and can be breathed. Ammonia is the fuel of the future. Case closed.

  2. The costs of a battery to the Planet are MUCH higher than the loss of energy from hydrogen production. not even mentioning that batteries die fast, and replacing them is VERY expensive. I love to know how much you got paid to promote this complete LIE.

  3. The problem with electric cars is, there is not enough littum ion in the world to construct batteries, and start mass production.

  4. WHO'S PAYING YOU TO LIE ABOUT TESLA !!!! I HAVE A TESLA AND I RECHARGE IN 25 TO 33 MIN. YOUR LYING SAYING IT TAKES 3 HOURS TO CHARGE THAT'S NOT AN HONEST MISTAKE THAT'S JUST A F…..ING LIE … CAN'T SUPPORT YOUR CHANNEL ANY MORE …

  5. There is actually a much more simple process recently discovered that efficiently uses electrolysis of water to produce hydrogen – without the need for hydrocarbons or unpredictable green solutions from wind/solar etc. The process uses small scale high heat energy to split H2O into H1 on site and in-situ without having to compress or store it. Storage of hydrogen is futile, extremely inefficient as it passes right through its own container. Solution is to produce it/convert it/and use it – as and when required directly within the vehicle itself. However the biggest obstacle to market is not one of technology but of; who to trust to further develop this technology? Certainly not the NWO Governments or the current big energy players.

  6. Certainly for air transport, hydrogen may be a viable alternative to fossil fuel. It is about two and a half times more energy dense than kerosene. Compressed hydrogen gas does not look too promising because of the weight of tanks capable of taking the huge pressure but the liquid may be a possibility. Obviously, problems with transporting, storing and pumping a liquid at -253 have to be overcome.

  7. If I have solar power at my house and I'm producing more electricity than I can use I can sell the excess back for small amount of what it's worth. If I were to get an electric car and use that extra electricity to recharge it I would count that as a zero cost for practical purposes. I already have the equipment, selling the excess electricity back to the power company isn't really making me much. The real savings is using the free electricity. So if I could have an electric means of producing my own hydrogen it wouldn't be too relevant for me how efficient that was. My concern would be producing enough for my demand and not using too much of my electricity demand. If it balanced out basically either method would be free for my purposes. Yes there's maintenance and other costs involved for the solar butt I'm saying many people that already have it and that's a growing number. Just a thought.

  8. They are completely forgetting that Nuclear Power plants along with electricity, can generate hydrogen quite easley. As a matter of fact hydrogen is generated naturally with proper control rod throttling. A heat exchanger system, just as we do with the steam for electricity generation, will limit eliminate radiation issue with the hydrogen produced on the secondary side. Currently any hydrogen produced in a nuclear reactor is a waste product, but with a little more research put into a fairly simple modification, this could be an incredibly efficient fuel. I am sure we'll get the usual crowd of "naysayers", but I challenge them to stop and think.. think… and use their energy towards cheep-efficient solutions.

  9. Yes, AT THE CAR, hydrogen appears to be the better option because you can refill the tank in a similar way to petrol or diesel cars, BUT, when you look at the cost of producing the hydrogen and getting it to and storing it at the 'gas' station, it's a non starter due to cost. And then there is the danger of they hyrdogen cylinder on a vehicle in the event of an accident and ensuing fire. If I was a fireman, i wouldn't want to be near a hydrogen fuel celled car!
    Battery technology is coming on in leaps and bounds. We already have cars with 300+ miles range. This will only get bigger as technology moves on

  10. Real Engineering, why don't you look into how battery density has improved over the last ten years? You make it sound like the only way to increase range is to add more batteries and thus more weight. The latest generation Leaf or Zoe, i forget which. It's the one that is coming out now, has a better range with the same number of batteries. How? Because tchnology has improved and the battery density has improved so more range for same size batteries. Or same range with less batteries.
    Just checked Fullycharged. It's the Zoe.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYBz_5H2jdw

  11. why not just burn the gas in a normal (petrol)engine,i think ya can ??? i think you left out the production and disposal of the batteries out of your calculation .Never the less ,very interesting video,thanks

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  13. One more question.. talking about Hydrogen and the end to end process….but what is with hydrogen peroxide ??? e.g. Wartburg, 1944 german submarine,… what is the end to end pocess and why dous nobody talk about this solution?

  14. What about the waste products of running these vehicles? Like byproducts of "burning" HFCs, or the waste created by production/disposal of batteries?

  15. I am guessing the Japanese are hoping on making hydrogen production a lot more cost effective and efficient???? Too bad couldn't run my phone off hydrogen with that kind of weight to energy ratio.

  16. Pulling up to a hydrogen filling station is no different that pulling up to a fossil fuel station.
    Who wants to DO THAT, when the can charge their car at where they live ?
    Not only that, this world does not need anymore huge 18 wheeler tankers destined for filling stations. …..The less big rigs on the road, the better.

  17. As ever, nobody counts the actual costs of producing the things that make the tech possible. Either purposeful lying or obfuscating the whole picture!

  18. This video is incredibly skewed and misses one of the most important points in the debate surrounding hydrogen vehicles and Battery powered electric vehicles – the production of the actual vehicle and long term sustainability. To produce an electric vehicle requires a large amount of lithium, lithium mining is the crude oil of the future and is significantly worse for the environment than refining crude oil. To the extent that currently, although a BEV is emissions free at the point of use, when brand new they have already produced enough emissions as an ICE car has in production and then the first 4 years of its use. This issue is exacerbated when you consider that an electric vehicles requires a replacement of its batteries every 5-10 years. Lithium is an infinitely more finite resource than hydrogen and the environmental toll of increasing its demand so significantly is scary to think about. As a result lithium producing countries (usually ones with very lax labour safety and environmental laws such as China) have a vested interest in lobbying for the adoption of BEVs over hydrogen vehicles.

    So while as an end user product the BEV is more efficient in terms of drivetrain losses and charging, it is overall much more damaging to the environment and less sustainable. I think we owe it to ourselves to future proof our solution instead of creating another conflict generating and environmentally damaging crude oil scenario.

  19. One important aspect of hydrogen is that it can be stored in principle endlessly, whereas a battery has a very high investment cost for capacity.

    A fuel cell/electrolyser is thus fundamentally different than a battery. And on a big scale storage is probably much more efficient than in a car.

    Hydrogen shouldnt be expensive since I anticipate it will be generated by cheap electricity or even electricity with negative price. That is I think the idea of the concept behind it. Use the energy that is generated by solar cells especially on noon and not used by the households

    Anyway I am not sure if hydrogen use in the car is really the best option. Though, I could even imagine that some other fuel generated by electrolysis could be stored from summer to winter or shipped from australia to US (and vice versa). I mean Australia has a huge solar capacity and most probably a lot of the energy is redundant thus, why not transport this energy to the other side of the globe

    OK maybe more Australia japan and US CHile for example

  20. Not sure this is the full picture when it comes to comparing costs/efficiencies.

    I suspect that li-ion batteries will not last as long as a hydrogen tank – I also assume that the materials are far more abundant and less exotic than those that make up a fuel cells hydrogen storage tank. Similarly differences in production processes. I would imagine that it is far harder to manufacture batteries than a storage tank etc… then shipping them and all that.
    This as well as the energy density do make hydrogen interesting as a fuel source surely. I also wonder about dry vs wet mass – you know, batteries weigh the same regardless of whether the have energy in them or not. I'm not trying to swing in favour of any, just curious about all this too.

    I wonder, have you done/thought about trying to look at the whole picture for all fuels and engine combinations? including petroleum and a jet? I wonder if one of these small efficient jet engines could be used to power an electric motor with good efficiencies over at least existing ICE motors and power trains.

  21. I noticed that you keep referring to getting electricity only from renewable sources. The problem with that is to date only 12.2% of the US electricity consumption comes from renewable sources and as the use of electric vehicles increases I don’t see renewable sources being able to keep up with the demand. The big problem with solar systems are they require huge areas and constant cleaning of the panels to maintain efficientcy, and wind mills are extremely ugly as they fill the sky with flailing arms and over time become a maintenance nightmare.
    Hydro electric and Nuclear are by far the most efficient way of creating huge amounts of power.

  22. Complete renewable lmao, and nuclear which is more polluting than any of them because how we obtain uranium and the waste and danger of the plants. For electric cars we need power to charge the batteries. This will be a disaster or many disasters and cancers will get more and more common.

  23. hi, how about the cost of change the bateries every 5 to 8 years? you could consider the life time cost in total… not only efficiency

  24. yah well batteries aren't free to make,, we barely make enough for smartphones and they produce more waste than fuel cells would, we could bypass batteries for energy storage and produce more hydrogen and then just use that however inefficient it was(we'd still need batteries but not like in fully electric cars), we could still make enough, but then again solar panels also use toxic elements and a large part of that hydrogen would come from that( still better than nuclear but even that could be used) at any case we won't have problems with energy demands even if we run out of oil..its just that corporations think only about profit and it doesn't make sense for them to switch yet.

  25. I think you're not quite comparing the same thing when comparing charging vs hydrogen production. Because the electricity isn't produced on site there are significant production losses.

  26. Does hydrogen require as much resources? I understood that it requires more energy than batteries, because it's less efficient. But batteries are made with rare earth and such. Does hydrogen branch also that much resource consuming? Can't we have a better carbon footprints by using nuclear power couple with hydrogen than using coaland petroleum powers with batteries cars?

    Just a question here I'm far from a specialist in those matters.

  27. 4100 people think that the real science around fuel cells is bullshit.

    I have seen this in spades in the real world. People don't understand that hydrogen is not a fuel like gasoline. It's inefficient, it's expensive, it's highly explosive and it LEAKS THROUGH SOLID METAL.

    Hydrogen powered cars have been in development since the 70's, and they've always been "just ten years away from viability." They always will be because they're fundamentally not a good option and the market continues to show that. That's why EVs are stealing the show. They're better, cheaper, faster, less polluting, and more efficient.

  28. Electric cars will Peak out at 25% of Market share in the UK. Totally impractical for real Use.
    My Reasons are Solid & Something they have not Thought of / or Dare mention to the General Public.
    Also, I have a method of Extending the Range of EV's to Unlimited Miles with zero time wasted Charging. I have solved one of Their biggest problems.
    I also Have a method of "SELF CHARGING CARS. "

    How Many Employers / Companies will Provide Car Charging in the company car park for staff cars ? Who will pay for the electric ?

  29. If you considered the efficency in the generation of hydrogen, why don't consider the efficency of the production of electricy for the charge of the stations for EV? (considering that thermal power plants will be still being the main character in the next couples of decades, while eolic and solar energy is still growing up). Just to be more accurate in the efficency comparison. Personally, I think EV are will be more into the human transportation, and HV will make their better performance in charge and heavy duty tasks. Great video, BTW!

  30. Sad that you didn't mention 3 major problems that also come with electric powered cars.
    1. We do not have enough lithium and cobalt on our planet to make cars for all of us.
    2. The pollution and destruction generated from making these batteries. Including the CO² in the process, which is what we do not want in the first place.
    3. The power taken from the grid (the demand) must be stored in it to be available. This alone leads to a multitude of problems itself. It's impossible to cover the peak when ALL people come home from work and want to charge their cars(imagining only electric cars would exist). Yes, physically impossible – a hard fact in power engineering. It's basically a DDOS attack on the electric grid.

    Changing the way we fuel or vehicles will come with a price. It's naive to think this will resolve without hurting a bit financially. Hydrogen has the advantage to be better storeable and movable in addition to it's higher energy-density. Also it's a hundreds time faster to refuel. The whole production of vehicles that use hydrogen more CO² friendly compared to lithium-ion.. The only sane way is to use both technologies and benefit from breakthroughs in research. Be it in more efficient hydrogen production or in lighter batteries that can hold more power.

    And finally: WE NEED LESS INDIVIDUAL TRAVEL!
    The major problem is that the vast majority of cars moving around only contain ONE puny human. That is the true energy waste. Governments all across the globe must work on building a public transportation that is an alternative to individual transport. Only this truly saves energy. In addition to that more tracks for cargo trains must be build to drastically reduce the number of trucks. The whole long distance logistics must be forced on rail. These two things a crucial to lower the total energy consumed by vehicles.

  31. Lots of false equivalents in this article.
    I think that there is a definite bias.
    If you really don't know your science the bullshit will convince you.

  32. The only possible solution is to produce hydrogen ONBOARD the car. A prototype of this had been developed in Italy many years ago, if I remember well. Of course it has been not taken in consideration by the majors. So you wipe out all the intermediate actors of the production and storing of the hydrogen and their disadvantages. Not to mention the leakage in tank and piped of the car. This is the only possible future for electric cars.

    Battery cells are the most crappy and nonviable solution. There are not enough raw materials and rare elements to build batteries cell for billions of cars!!! Nobody talks about this. They just produce crap cars to sale, without future. There are also not enough kW, in the power distribution grid to charge millions of cars contemporary, during the night or day time.

  33. Batteries are expensive to produce and recycle and battery efficiency drops significantly in low temperatures, I think hydrogen does have a future. It's a pity we can't convert blarney into auto motive force lol

  34. Like how yall did the price breakdown for cars but what about supply a buidling with electricity how does the cost break down there

  35. Still though, it is always relative and this is where it becomes interesting. I live in SE Asia where you still buy the gas cans which costs nearly a day wage for locals and usually needs to be refilled every 2-3 months. This while in contrast, they can use a cheap solar panel and old motorbike battery, to create hydrogen cooking gas, basically 100% free (20 usd for a good enough solar panel, batteries that are used, so free).

    Aside of that, that same solar panel and older battery, can not produce enough for electric cooking, so then there is no loss but only gains in practical usage and reality.

    Also, obviously the corporations decide to sell that hydrogen in stations for 85$ / high taxes from governments, while I am pretty sure it can be offered much cheaper, if willingly.
    I pay less than a dollar for a liter of gasoline here too. Secret and ugly truth is, as always it is about profits, turning everything electric and green for fake climate change, is a bigger business than Oil was in history so far, and 9/10 oil companies end up owning those new businesses too.

  36. Why am i not surprised to see a verified checkmark channel attacking hydrogen cars with no accurate breakdown of the costs of electric cars…..

    Also, electric cars are not about saving the environment, they are about control. With a population driving electric cars with computers, you can access their hardware and shut the vehicle down and basically control whether they can drive and where. A population driving hydrogen cars with no computer can drive freely and potentially even produce their own fuel. Electric cars are a sinister trick being FORCED ON US(in the case of the UK) to implement an Orwellian technocracy(hence why they are being forced on us with the slippery slope of diesel bans both on newly manufactured cars and the proposed ban on diesel cars driving into London – soon it will be petrol).

  37. This whole debate is nothing more than a battle between 2 new religions which are both wrong. Here is my opinion and I respect your right to disagree. In the end the answer will be algae biofuel. For a variety of reasons it must be algae biofuel. There is no other option.

  38. all nice and dandy, but we dint have enough lithium to fit all cars with batteries, on the other hand we have no problem in fitting H tanks in cars.

  39. euro 5 emission standards are set, 4 cylinder turbos with free valve (pneumatic valves)technology = 30% more efficient, cleaner emission, 30% smaller form factor & . thats probably more or less the actual future of engines

  40. I have a question though.. you're in a car equipped with hydrogen fuel cell, then car crash happens.. won't it explode or something?

  41. But the truth is that none of those renewable energies that you're speaking of our what actually charges these electric cars. The power source that charges them his coal-fired plants, nuclear plants, and other electrical generation stations. So how clean is that? Windmills are killing birds by the hundreds and thousands. Solar's just not able to pull enough power yet.

  42. And that power loss you were referring to is inaccurate. I was told that hydrogen requires far less heat to continue cumbustion. And there's no reason that a vehicle with a higher power rating like hydrogen can't start taking some of the wheels spin to generate more electricity. The idea would be to store pure water in the tank. Electrolysis happens near the combustion site so you're not carrying hydrogen around. You won't be using air to combust it but instead pure oxygen. The combustion can occur and there would be no nitrogen in the exhaust. Instead it gets cool down through the exhaust and recaptured into the tank. You may lose some in the process but there's no reason why you can't continue to recycle it. Hydrogen has the potential to be the ultimate green fuel of the future. Batteries wind up in landfills even rechargeables.

  43. there have been experiments in using alga in manufacturing hydrogen, all you need is a big pool and sunlight (and the byproduct is oxygen). the university of Cornell had one such experiment going a few years back.

  44. While there is a lot of research effort put into this video, a central point has to be emphasised: storage and peaks in demand. An electric grid – which btw has to be upscaled massively if battery-powered cars were to become the standard! – has to handle enormous peaks at the times of day when people will want to recharge, e.g. after work. Those spikes have to be taken into account, as there will have to be enough current potential in the grid, which in turn will need massive storage facilities or back-up power plants or alike. Hydrogen, on the other hand, can just be stored and used on demand. Including this in the analysis would most certainly tilt the 'resource efficiency balance' to quite a degree.

  45. I like the analysis and pointing at the different uses for different needs could be more majored upon – school run and shop run Mums (and Dads) could use battery whilst long distance commercial vehicles could use hydrogen? What are the splits of usage? Can we have dual fuel battery / hydrogen vehicles? Others have pointed out some gaps in the e2e analysis and I wondered if we were missing the lost energy from carrying all the batteries whilst driving… surely this has an impact?

  46. Thanks for another very informative video. One major thing not mentioned (I know, you can't mention everything) is that batteries can suck up solar power when the sun shines for use in the evening when demand spikes. Battery powered cars will soon be integrated into smart grids to power homes as well as transportation, further reducing the need for "peaker plants", running on natural gas. Fuel cells will have their place (probably aviation) but batteries are so much more versatile and simple. I love that solar panels on my roof power my car. Doesn't get much simpler (and local) than that.

  47. I'd be driving a Tesla if I didn't live in Canada. But due to the cold, the batteries can lose up to 40% of their charge in winter. Not to mention very slow charging… There's always pros and cons to every technology.

  48. This research if applied would put hydrogen vehicles in front of EVs, in terms of fuel costs, https://phys.org/news/2019-08-scientists-hydrogen-gas-oil-bitumen.html . Also it is not really fair to compare the two after one has been invested in to lower costs for a few years now.

  49. Use nuclear energy in electrolysis process to produce hydrogen, simple. Main idea is to stop global warming by eliminating fossil fuel use and producing oxygen at the same time.

  50. We need better batteries! Carbon nanotubes or even better gold nanotubes unfortunately they are really expensive & difficult to produce & supply is limited

  51. You have completely ignored the the embodied energy in manufacturing the batteries and the manufacturing of batteries is not green so your statement that they are equally green is false

  52. Lithium battery technology is not scalable for every vehicle in this world. Hydrogen technology might be if people would give it a chance by supporting this technology. Nowadays lithium industry is almost under China monopoly. Hydrogen fuel cell on the other hand uses some rare materials(Pt) but there is room for improvement and is theoretically possible. Lithium battery energy density has almost reach its theoretical max value hance lithium is dead end along the fact that there is not enought Lithium on this planet to power every vehicle. Hydrogen on the other hand can power trucks, trailers, tractors and even airplanes.

  53. A Tesla S with a 2 to 2,4 c/km filling cost is a feat of engineering. With 3 or more seats occupied, it is more efficient than a high speed train. Unfortunately, these numbers are only a tiny part of the picture. With a three year/10 000 miles leasing cost of about 67 c/km, annual property tax above 4% in my CT town, and expensive insurance, the Tesla doesn't make sense anymore.

  54. I believe there's a technology that's been developed (not public) which uses salt water in the process of extracting hydrogen. Something like a 90%+ efficiency rate in comparison to the current methods. The company is private and are still improving their methods, but a little bird tells me it's getting better.
    Take this with a grain of salt as I cannot confirm.

  55. 18% of U.S. electricity is from renewables. If you compare against that presumption, why not make the same dreamy presumptions for the H ..? Still; my vote is NUCLEAR

  56. how is the influence of the vehicle materials recyclability at the end of its service? or the energy manufacturing facility of the same?

  57. But there is one major problem with electric cars, though the car in itself using a battery may be more green then an internal combustion engine. Where would that electricity come from? The power grid. Increasing the amount of electric cars would increase the demand for electricity. How is that electricity generated? Having dinosaur (fossil) fuel power plants working at a higher rate to supply the increased demand would only shift the pollution up stream to the companies generating the electricity rather then eliminating or reducing it.

  58. So you didn't even mention the dangers of hydrogen. Mixed with air it is highly explosive even in small amounts. Other than that a good video.

  59. You forgot to take driving efficiencies into account, hydrogen vehicles should be more efficient since they are lighter… Right?

  60. I know the main Hydrogen tank needs time to repressurise after every filling. So how many Fuel Cell vehicles can a station serve in a 1hr period? 4?

  61. Station costs need to be looked at too.
    Stations that use hydrogen delivered as a gas have an average storage of 180 kg/day and an estimated the total cost of $2 million, which includes equipment, design, construction, and commissioning.
    https://h2stationmaps.Com/costs-and-financing

    The cost of a single port EVSE unit ranges from $300-$1,500 for Level 1, $400-$6,500 for Level 2, and $10,000-$40,000 for DC fast charging. Installation costs vary greatly from site to site with a ballpark cost range of $0-$3,000 for Level 1, $600- $12,700 for Level 2, and $4,000-$51,000 for DC fast charging.
    https://energy.Gov/eere/vehicles/workplace-charging-equipment-costs

    With DC fast charging stations, you can add multiple chargers to significantly lower the average cost, that's something you can't do with Hydrogen.

  62. Honestly I’m a fan of Hydrogen, while it may have many problems the same can be said for the other options as well, cutting out Pollution completely is very unlikely, we need to focus more on minimizing it to the point where our planet can fight back

  63. This is a great video but to my experience there are two factors missing in the comparison. Batteries effectiveness and lifetime are both temperature sensitive which means TCO over a longer period should be taken into the equasion and calculated into the efficiency loss. Both factors are less variable with Hydrogen Fuel cells. Hydrogen production is great for energy storage in periods of overproduction of electricity. In Europe there have been peak Electricity production periods when the electricity price was negative. This has lead to users (Industrial) being paid to use electricity. The production of Hydrogen could capture and buffer these peaks to validate the over production and help buffer electricity prices in both directions. As investments in solar and wind energy continue, more electricity production peaks are to be expected which will have a positive effect on the Hydrogen production and availability.

  64. Real engineering , you should do a video on how the CSIRO has had a polymer exchange breakthrough in more efficient hydrogen production and transporting hydrogen as ammonia rather than gas.

  65. Your also forgetting that electric motors wear out as well, batteries wear out or undergo chemical changes needing complete replacement no repair option. Wiring insulation breaks down and steel rusts too so electric cars arent anything spectacular either.

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